Nute Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Buckster said: It is extrapolated from the genealogy in the bible. See here. Thanks, interesting read. A few points in no particular order - The Old Testament contains a fair few contradictions. There is also some debate about who wrote it and when. I realise you are probably of the view that t was dictated to Moses by God but then there are vivid contradictions in what should be Christian principals between the Old T and the New. I don't view the OT as reliable yet the age of the earth can be determined by the apparent progression of lineage of the main players? The simple statement that this is the word of God as given to Moses doesn't override the wealth of scientific evidence to the contrary on the age of the earth. The half life of an isotope is measurable. It is fixed and doesn't vary. Granted for those with massively long half lives there will be a margin of error in their calculation. If the earth is 6,000 years old how are we seeing light from stars which are many millions of years old. Noah/flood is inconsistent with reality. The dimensions of he ark are stipulated yet no way is that large enough to fit 2 of everything in it (plus food etc) If the ark grounded on mount Ararat how did animals get to other continents If the art is 6K years old that's not sufficient time for evolution to come up with the assortment of differing human attributes (the diff between what I look like and an aboriginal chap in Australia for example). Evolution is not just a theory, we can see it happening around us (emergence of antibiotic resistant bacteria for example) We have bought back rocks from the moon (unless you are Zak) which date from the formation of the moons crust which with no tectonic activity is fecking old. I can't be bothered to look it up. If the earth was flooded for a year where has every other living thing which wasn't loaded onto the Ark come from? Trees, fungi, Zak, etc There is evidence of human habitation which is older than 6K years There are any number of fossils in sedimentary rock magnitudes older than 6K years. What happened to the dinosaurs? I could spend all day coming up with this stuff. Of course all of the above can be simply answered by God simply creating the universe that way and that's all there is to it. I would argue however that we his creations are thinking, inquisitive, enquiring and curious, why would he create something then tell Moses that's how it is when there is so much evidence that we see which makes us question it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 3 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: Well if nothing else you are consistent: You have just as much talent for remotely diagnosing my mood as you have for science! Perhaps if you started by deciding if you're playing the man or the ball you might do better, because you've had a couple of pretty feeble stabs at both so far without success. The 'lack' of transitional fossils is in no way a 'huge problem for evolution', Buckster. Let us not forget that a couple of weeks ago you fervently believed (and for all I know probably still do believe) that evolutionary theory allowed for fish to evolve into cows, which immediately raises the question of whether you would even recognise a transitional fossil if you saw one. And if you do want to see one, just go to the palaeontology department of the Natural History Museum and ask them to point a few out. Well despite your puerile attempts at ridicule, you know fine well what I’m getting at when I say evolution teaches that fish turned into cows, evolution claims that all life evolved from single cell organisms, where they came from of course is down to magic. The simple fact is that there are no transitional fossils that support the theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six30 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Buckster said: Evolution requires just as much faith, possibly more given all the gaps in it. it makes more sense though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 3 minutes ago, Nute said: Thanks, interesting read. A few points in no particular order - The Old Testament contains a fair few contradictions. There is also some debate about who wrote it and when. I realise you are probably of the view that t was dictated to Moses by God but then there are vivid contradictions in what should be Christian principals between the Old T and the New. I don't view the OT as reliable yet the age of the earth can be determined by the apparent progression of lineage of the main players. The simple statement that this is the word of God as given to Moses doesn't override the wealth of scientific evidence to the contrary on the age of the earth. The half life of an isotope is measurable. It is fixed and doesn't vary. Granted for those with massively long half lives there will be a margin of error in their calculation. If the earth is 6,000 years old how are we seeing light from stars which are many millions of years old. Noah/flood is inconsistent with reality. The dimensions of he ark are stipulated yet no way is that large enough to fit 2 of everything in it (plus food etc) If the ark grounded on mount Ararat how did animals get to other continents If the art is 6K years old that's not sufficient time for evolution to come up with the assortment of differing human attributes (the diff between what I look like and an aboriginal chap in Australia for example). Evolution is not just a theory, we can see it happening around us (emergence of antibiotic resistant bacteria for example) We have bought back rocks from the moon (unless you are Zak) which date from the formation of the moons crust which with no tectonic activity is fecking old. I can't be bothered to look it up. If the earth was flooded for a year where has every other living thing which wasn't loaded onto the Ark come from? Trees, fungi, Zak, etc There is evidence of human habitation which is older than 6K years There are any number of fossils in sedimentary rock magnitudes older than 6K years. What happened to the dinosaurs? I could spend all day coming up with this stuff. Of course all of the above can be simply answered by God simply creating the universe that way and that's all there is to it. I would argue however that we his creations are thinking, inquisitive, enquiring and curious, why would he create something then tell Moses that's how it is when there is so much evidence that we see which makes us question it? Reference the contradictions in the OT. Reference the contradictions between the Old and New Testament. How did the animals get from the ark to their respective locations on the earth? The same way they got to the ark. Antibiotic resistant bacteria, what did it evolve from? If you say another type of bacteria then that is a variation, not proof of evolution, evolution requires a change of type for it to be proven, that’s what it claims after all. Trees etc. post flood from seeds etc. and others survived despite the flood according to God’s will, I know you won’t like that answer but you will have to get over it. Moon rocks, we are back to the radiometric dating anomalies, I’ll ask again, show me one study where radiometric dating has dated a rock accurately to its known age. Zzzak? Some things are better off remaining a mystery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 8 minutes ago, Six30 said: it makes more sense though Not really, you are clearly a lower life form than a monkey. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 20 minutes ago, Buckster said: Well despite your puerile attempts at ridicule, you know fine well what I’m getting at when I say evolution teaches that fish turned into cows, evolution claims that all life evolved from single cell organisms, where they came from of course is down to magic. The simple fact is that there are no transitional fossils that support the theory. Absolute claptrap. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boboneleg Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 minute ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: Absolute claptrap. That’s it , no need for long winded statements. Say what you really feel 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 2 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: Absolute claptrap. Well that settles it then, you have reached Zzzak level of evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Six30 Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 minute ago, Buckster said: Well that settles it then, you have reached Zzzak level of evidence. How many Christians does it take to change a lightbulb? None, they prefer to stay in the dark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 54 minutes ago, Buckster said: I am convinced from my own research and the issues in scientific theory on the subject that the earth is in the region of 8000 years old and I appreciate that you have faith that it is 4.5 billion years old and I am okay with you being wrong. Here are a few other people who have also publicly stated their 'faith' in the Earth being 4.5 billion years old, and in evolutionary biology. Perhaps you'd like to share your masterly research with them and see if it helps them overcome their delusions. Academia Chilena de Ciencias Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela Academia Mexicana de Ciencias Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal Académie des Sciences, France Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand Academy of Science of South Africa Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy African Academy of Sciences Alabama Academy of Science Albanian Academy of Sciences American Anthropological Association American Association for the Advancement of Science American Association of Physical Anthropologists American Astronomical Society American Chemical Society American Geological Institute American Geophysical Union American Institute of Biological Sciences American Physical Society American Society for Microbiology American Society of Biological Chemists American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists American Society of Naturalists American Society of Parasitologists American Society of Plant Taxonomists American Statistical Association Australian Academy of Science Austrian Academy of Sciences Bangladesh Academy of Sciences Biophysical Society Botanical Society of America Brazilian Academy of Sciences Bulgarian Academy of Sciences California Academy of Sciences Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences Canadian Society for Ecology and Evolution Chinese Academy of Sciences Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences Committee for the Anthropology of Science, Technology, and Computing Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences Cuban Academy of Sciences Ecological Society of America Entomological Society of America Entomological Society of Canada Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology Genetics Society of America Geological Society of America Geological Society of Australia Geological Society of London Georgia Academy of Science Hungarian Academy of Sciences Indian National Science Academy Indiana Academy of Science Indonesian Academy of Sciences Iowa Academy of Science Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities Kansas Academy of Science Kentucky Academy of Science Kentucky Paleontological Society Kenya National Academy of Sciences Latvian Academy of Sciences Lithuanian Academy of Sciences Louisiana Academy of Sciences Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts Mongolian Academy of Sciences National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences (Argentina) National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines National Academy of Sciences National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka New Mexico Academy of Science New Orleans Geological Society New York Academy of Sciences Nigerian Academy of Sciences North American Benthological Society North Carolina Academy of Science Ohio Academy of Science Oklahoma Academy of Science Pakistan Academy of Sciences Palestine Academy for Science and Technology Pennsylvania Academy of Science Pennsylvania Council of Professional Geologists Polish Academy of Sciences Science Council of Japan Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts Singapore National Academy of Sciences Slovak Academy of Sciences Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology Society for Neuroscience Society for Organic Petrology Society for the Study of Evolution Society of Physics Students Society of Systematic Biologists Society of Vertebrate Palaeontology Southern Anthropological Society Tallahassee Scientific Society Tennessee Academy of Science Tennessee Darwin Coalition Texas Academy of Science The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada The Academy of Athens, Greece The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World The Caribbean Academy of Sciences The Executive Board of the International Council for Science The Paleontological Society The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium The Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada The Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters The Royal Irish Academy The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences The Royal Society of Canada The Royal Society, UK The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences The Uganda National Academy of Sciences Turkish Academy of Sciences Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities US National Academy of Sciences Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences Virginia Academy of Science West Virginia Academy of Science Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 2 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: Here are a few other people who have also publicly stated their 'faith' in the Earth being 4.5 billion years old, and in evolutionary biology. Perhaps you'd like to share your masterly research with them and see if it helps them overcome their delusions. Academia Chilena de Ciencias Academia de Ciencias Físicas, Matemáticas y Naturales de Venezuela Academia Mexicana de Ciencias Academia Nacional de Ciencias del Peru Académie des Sciences et Techniques du Sénégal Académie des Sciences, France Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand Academy of Science of South Africa Academy of Sciences and Arts of Bosnia and Herzegovina Academy of Sciences of the Czech Republic Academy of Sciences of the Islamic Republic of Iran Academy of Sciences, Republic of Tajikistan Academy of Scientific Research and Technology, Egypt Academy of the Kingdom of Morocco Accademia Nazionale dei Lincei, Italy African Academy of Sciences Alabama Academy of Science Albanian Academy of Sciences American Anthropological Association American Association for the Advancement of Science American Association of Physical Anthropologists American Astronomical Society American Chemical Society American Geological Institute American Geophysical Union American Institute of Biological Sciences American Physical Society American Society for Microbiology American Society of Biological Chemists American Society of Ichthyologists and Herpetologists American Society of Naturalists American Society of Parasitologists American Society of Plant Taxonomists American Statistical Association Australian Academy of Science Austrian Academy of Sciences Bangladesh Academy of Sciences Biophysical Society Botanical Society of America Brazilian Academy of Sciences Bulgarian Academy of Sciences California Academy of Sciences Canadian Federation of Earth Sciences Canadian Society for Ecology and Evolution Chinese Academy of Sciences Colombian Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences Committee for the Anthropology of Science, Technology, and Computing Council of the Swiss Scientific Academies Croatian Academy of Arts and Sciences Cuban Academy of Sciences Ecological Society of America Entomological Society of America Entomological Society of Canada Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology Genetics Society of America Geological Society of America Geological Society of Australia Geological Society of London Georgia Academy of Science Hungarian Academy of Sciences Indian National Science Academy Indiana Academy of Science Indonesian Academy of Sciences Iowa Academy of Science Israel Academy of Sciences and Humanities Kansas Academy of Science Kentucky Academy of Science Kentucky Paleontological Society Kenya National Academy of Sciences Latvian Academy of Sciences Lithuanian Academy of Sciences Louisiana Academy of Sciences Macedonian Academy of Sciences and Arts Mongolian Academy of Sciences National Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences (Argentina) National Academy of Science and Technology, The Philippines National Academy of Sciences National Academy of Sciences of the Kyrgyz Republic National Academy of Sciences, Sri Lanka New Mexico Academy of Science New Orleans Geological Society New York Academy of Sciences Nigerian Academy of Sciences North American Benthological Society North Carolina Academy of Science Ohio Academy of Science Oklahoma Academy of Science Pakistan Academy of Sciences Palestine Academy for Science and Technology Pennsylvania Academy of Science Pennsylvania Council of Professional Geologists Polish Academy of Sciences Science Council of Japan Serbian Academy of Sciences and Arts Singapore National Academy of Sciences Slovak Academy of Sciences Slovenian Academy of Sciences and Arts Society for Integrative and Comparative Biology Society for Neuroscience Society for Organic Petrology Society for the Study of Evolution Society of Physics Students Society of Systematic Biologists Society of Vertebrate Palaeontology Southern Anthropological Society Tallahassee Scientific Society Tennessee Academy of Science Tennessee Darwin Coalition Texas Academy of Science The Academies of Arts, Humanities and Sciences of Canada The Academy of Athens, Greece The Academy of Sciences for the Developing World The Caribbean Academy of Sciences The Executive Board of the International Council for Science The Paleontological Society The Royal Academies for Science and the Arts of Belgium The Royal Academy of Exact, Physical and Natural Sciences of Spain The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada The Royal Danish Academy of Sciences and Letters The Royal Irish Academy The Royal Netherlands Academy of Arts and Sciences The Royal Society of Canada The Royal Society, UK The Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences The Uganda National Academy of Sciences Turkish Academy of Sciences Union of German Academies of Sciences and Humanities US National Academy of Sciences Uzbekistan Academy of Sciences Virginia Academy of Science West Virginia Academy of Science Zimbabwe Academy of Sciences Okay Zzzak. 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Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Just now, Buckster said: Okay Zzzak. No, but seriously Buckster, just think about it: There are some jolly clever boffins in those institutes I listed - I know quite a few of them - and if you did share your ground-breaking research with them and managed to get them to see that they had all been deluding themselves whilst you had got it right all along... well, just imagine! Fame and fortune beyond your wildest dreams! You wouldn't have to spend your time on motorbike forums trying to persuade professional scientists that patent scientific illiteracy is actually rare scientific insight, you'd have hundreds of thousands of new disciples from the cream of the world's intelligentsia to go out and spread the word for you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 minute ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: No, but seriously Buckster, just think about it: There are some jolly clever boffins in those institutes I listed - I know quite a few of them - and if you did share your ground-breaking research with them and managed to get them to see that they had all been deluding themselves whilst you had got it right all along... well, just imagine! Fame and fortune beyond your wildest dreams! You wouldn't have to spend your time on motorbike forums trying to persuade professional scientists that patent scientific illiteracy is actually rare scientific insight, you'd have hundreds of thousands of new disciples from the cream of the world's intelligentsia to go out and spread the word for you! I don’t mind that you and your friends deluding yourselves, unlike you who is absolutely horrified that someone disagrees with you. I’m half expecting a knock on the door after you report me for a hate crime, no doubt in tears “Buckster hurt me by disagreeing with me! It’s not fair, it’s not fair!” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 Just now, Buckster said: I don’t mind that you and your friends deluding yourselves, unlike you who is absolutely horrified that someone disagrees with you. I’m half expecting a knock on the door after you report me for a hate crime, no doubt in tears “Buckster hurt me by disagreeing with me! It’s not fair, it’s not fair!” What a peculiar person you are. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 7 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: What a peculiar person you are. So that’s it then? You have no evidence, you won’t answer even the most basic questions. You are Zzzak and I claim my £5. There is no point in continuing this, I will stick with what I know to be true and you can stick to the myths you believe despite the lack of verifiable evidence to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 3 minutes ago, Buckster said: So that’s it then? You have no evidence, you won’t answer even the most basic questions. You are Zzzak and I claim my £5. There is no point in continuing this, I will stick with what I know to be true and you can stick to the myths you believe despite the lack of verifiable evidence to support them. If you want evidence of transitional fossils, go to the palaeontology department of any sizeable natural history museum and ask them to show you the transitional fossils. I can't really make it any easier than that for you, Buckster. If you go armed with your current understanding of what a transitional fossil is you're likely to be disappointed though - there are no lactating fish or hexapod chickens, I'm afraid. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 8 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: If you want evidence of transitional fossils, go to the palaeontology department of any sizeable natural history museum and ask them to show you the transitional fossils. I can't really make it any easier than that for you, Buckster. If you go armed with your current understanding of what a transitional fossil is you're likely to be disappointed though - there are no lactating fish or hexapod chickens, I'm afraid. Okay Zzzak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 1 hour ago, Buckster said: Moon rocks, we are back to the radiometric dating anomalies, I’ll ask again, show me one study where radiometric dating has dated a rock accurately to its known age. Are these the same anomalies you were referring to earlier, where you seemed to think that a radiometric technique with a standard error of +/- 2 million years failing to accurately date a sample from the 1980s constituted a cast-iron refutation of the entire field of radiometric dating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XTreme Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 Where's @zzzak to throw some light on this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 4 minutes ago, XTreme said: Where's @zzzak to throw some light on this? He will have to log out and log back in again on that account. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto von Jizzmark Posted April 19 Author Share Posted April 19 17 minutes ago, XTreme said: Where's @zzzak to throw some light on this? What I find funny is that despite the obvious contempt they have for each other, Zzzak and Buckster are absolutely two of a kind. They both believe patent absurdities, they are both hopelessly scientifically illiterate but lack the basic intelligence or even the self-awareness to realise it, both of them believe that self-educating from the most painfully imbecilic sources is not only a sufficient surrogate for genuine expertise but is actually superior to it, neither of them shows any capacity to learn or adapt their thinking, and the positions adopted by both of them not only requires every genuine scientist working in every academic and scientific research institution around the world to be wrong, but to either be blissfully unaware of the fact that they are wrong or be colluding in an international conspiracy of silence. And none of this causes either of them any cognitive dissonance whatsoever. The pair of them are Dunning-Kruger personified: boundless confidence in limitless ignorance. 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 42 minutes ago, Buckster said: There is no point in continuing this 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 42 minutes ago, Otto von Jizzmark said: What I find funny is that despite the obvious contempt they have for each other, Zzzak and Buckster are absolutely two of a kind. They both believe patent absurdities, they are both hopelessly scientifically illiterate but lack the basic intelligence or even the self-awareness to realise it, both of them believe that self-educating from the most painfully imbecilic sources is not only a sufficient surrogate for genuine expertise but is actually superior to it, neither of them shows any capacity to learn or adapt their thinking, and the positions adopted by both of them not only requires every genuine scientist working in every academic and scientific research institution around the world to be wrong, but to either be blissfully unaware of the fact that they are wrong or be colluding in an international conspiracy of silence. And none of this causes either of them any cognitive dissonance whatsoever. The pair of them are Dunning-Kruger personified: boundless confidence in limitless ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nute Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 3 hours ago, Buckster said: Reference the contradictions in the OT. Reference the contradictions between the Old and New Testament. OT - an eye for an eye, NT - forgive those that trespass against you. There are many others, read Deuteronomy. Ive always wondered how the human race descended from Adam & Eve without a bit of incest along the way? How did the animals get from the ark to their respective locations on the earth? The same way they got to the ark. Still doesn't answer the question. In the absence of British Airways I'm puzzled how a koala bear made it to the meeting point. And how did they all fit? Were the dinosaurs on it? I wish Noah had left seagulls and mosquitos behind. Antibiotic resistant bacteria, what did it evolve from? If you say another type of bacteria then that is a variation, not proof of evolution, evolution requires a change of type for it to be proven, that’s what it claims after all. Its a mutation, the building block of evolution, see also pesticide resistant insects etc Trees etc. post flood from seeds etc. and others survived despite the flood according to God’s will, I know you won’t like that answer but you will have to get over it. You must admit that stretches credulence somewhat, but you obviously have faith in it Moon rocks, we are back to the radiometric dating anomalies, I’ll ask again, show me one study where radiometric dating has dated a rock accurately to its known age. ...you don't see any irony here in you disbelieving the scientific method of dating yet placing total faith in a document that you have no proof whatsoever as to its provenance, just blind faith (which isn't a bad thing) that it's the truth in the face of the principals of physics which suggest your conclusion cannot be correct. Zzzak? Some things are better off remaining a mystery. We agree on that... You obviously have your faith and no internet argument is going to change that, as it wouldn't mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckster Posted April 19 Share Posted April 19 1 minute ago, Nute said: You obviously have your faith and no internet argument is going to change that, as it wouldn't mine. The contradiction between OT and NT don't exist, context is very important and Christs fulfillment of the law abrogates the required satisfaction for sin as he vicariously pays the price on the cross. Who exactly do you understand Jesus to be? Serious question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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