Nikasil plated cylinders... ball honing and replating...wtf

[Grace (BikeHedonia)]

Is there someone who can explain to me the implications of whether you ball hone or replate a nikasil cylinder? I need to source two new pistons, piston rings, top end bearings and a couple of gaskets to rebuild the top ends of two 2019 EC300s. This is way beyond my technical knowledge but my mechanically competent friends are Thai, and they don't speak English. So I need to order the right parts for them. In order to do that, I need to know what the hell is going on. 

I was looking at the 8077-DB Wossner Piston kit but the supplier has come back to me and said, "you do know it's a nikasil cylinder - are you going to ball hone or replate?" and I need to understand the implications of that, so I can make sure that I'm ordering the right parts (and that, when we send the cylinders to bangkok for reconditioning, we get them either ball honed or replated, whichever is the correct approach). Is there anyone who would be kind enough to help me understand this better?

 

[XTreme]

6 hours ago, Grace (BikeHedonia) said:

Is there someone who can explain to me the implications of whether you ball hone or replate a nikasil cylinder? I need to source two new pistons, piston rings, top end bearings and a couple of gaskets to rebuild the top ends of two 2019 EC300s. This is way beyond my technical knowledge but my mechanically competent friends are Thai, and they don't speak English. So I need to order the right parts for them. In order to do that, I need to know what the hell is going on. 

I was looking at the 8077-DB Wossner Piston kit but the supplier has come back to me and said, "you do know it's a nikasil cylinder - are you going to ball hone or replate?" and I need to understand the implications of that, so I can make sure that I'm ordering the right parts (and that, when we send the cylinders to bangkok for reconditioning, we get them either ball honed or replated, whichever is the correct approach). Is there anyone who would be kind enough to help me understand this better?

 

I think this needs @Sir Fallsalot and @boboneleg

[Sir Fallsalot]

I'm no expert but this is my understanding of it, honing  is just to deglaze the cylinder wall to help the new rings bed in which is usually all you need to do if there's no wear or damage to the nikasil coating. A lot of people say not to ball hone a two stroke cylinder as the balls can catch in the ports just enough to flake the edge of the plating. This can't happen in a steel bore as there is no plating to peel up not sure if there's any truth in this though. Re plating will need to be done if there's damage to the cylinder walls as in scratches you can catch your finger nails in or if the coating has worn out

Unfortunately if you want it done properly the following is the only way
you need to have a professional determine the bore size and the piston to cylinder clearance and they will advise you on what you need to do whether it be a hone or re plate and what piston or rings to buy if needed

[XTreme]

3 hours ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

determine the bore size and the piston to cylinder clearance and they will advise you on what you need to do whether it be a hone or re plate and what piston or rings to buy if needed

Yeh......I'd agree with that! 

[boboneleg]

3 hours ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

I'm no expert but this is my understanding of it, honing  is just to deglaze the cylinder wall to help the new rings bed in which is usually all you need to do if there's no wear or damage to the nikasil coating. A lot of people say not to ball hone a two stroke cylinder as the balls can catch in the ports just enough to flake the edge of the plating. This can't happen in a steel bore as there is no plating to peel up not sure if there's any truth in this though. Re plating will need to be done if there's damage to the cylinder walls as in scratches you can catch your finger nails in or if the coating has worn out

Unfortunately if you want it done properly the following is the only way
you need to have a professional determine the bore size and the piston to cylinder clearance and they will advise you on what you need to do whether it be a hone or re plate and what piston or rings to buy if needed

What Fred said

All our Ducati race engines are taken to a specialist comapny , they are then honed to match the pistons we supply .  As long as the Nikasil coating is not damaged you might get away with just fitting the new pistons.

[Grace (BikeHedonia)]

4 hours ago, Sir Fallsalot said:

I'm no expert but this is my understanding of it, honing  is just to deglaze the cylinder wall to help the new rings bed in which is usually all you need to do if there's no wear or damage to the nikasil coating. A lot of people say not to ball hone a two stroke cylinder as the balls can catch in the ports just enough to flake the edge of the plating. This can't happen in a steel bore as there is no plating to peel up not sure if there's any truth in this though. Re plating will need to be done if there's damage to the cylinder walls as in scratches you can catch your finger nails in or if the coating has worn out

Unfortunately if you want it done properly the following is the only way
you need to have a professional determine the bore size and the piston to cylinder clearance and they will advise you on what you need to do whether it be a hone or re plate and what piston or rings to buy if needed

THANK YOU SO MUCH. That all makes perfect sense, and now I understand what is being asked and why. I appreciate this so much, thanks again.

The good news is that the nikasil coating is fine, we should be able to just replace the pistons. Awesome.

[Grace (BikeHedonia)]

42 minutes ago, boboneleg said:

What Fred said

All our Ducati race engines are taken to a specialist comapny , they are then honed to match the pistons we supply .  As long as the Nikasil coating is not damaged you might get away with just fitting the new pistons.

Brilliant, that all makes sense. Thanks so much for the technical consult! Much appreciated!